I've tried the search function, but I cannot find a good discussion based around a direct discussion between the 2 main classes of passives.
What would you guys take, a mixture or one over the other? Personally, I'm not sure whether to take the chance with crit or just go straight to increasing my base DPS.

Posted by
D4veY
on Mar 11, 2013, 8:30:18 PM

A mixture would work better than maximizing one or the other.
If your unmodified attack would deal 1000 damage, an unmodified crit would deal 1500 damage.
If you modify the attack by 100%, it becomes 2000 damage, and the crit would deal 3000 damage.
If you modify the crit multiplier by one bonus of 100%, normal attack is 1000 and the crit would deal 3000 damage.
If you modify the attack by 50%, it becomes 1500 damage, and you also modify the crit multiplier by 50%, the crit of that attack would deal 3375 damage.
Now you also have to take into account that crit multiplier bonuses are multiplicative, which means you should focus crit multiplier more than base damage, but still keep a mixture - if there is a low base, the crit multiplier has nothing to multiply!

'

The multiplier value is modified by talents multiplicatively, for instance if you have +40% and +20% modifiers, the resulting crit multiplier will be 150*(1+0.4+0.2)=240%, meaning that critical strikes deal 240% damage of normal hits.

Critical Strike info!
I tried to simplify this post as much as possible for the sake of easier presentation.

Life is tough.. but it is tougher if you're stupid.

Posted by
VenatorPoE
on Mar 11, 2013, 8:42:16 PM

'

A mixture would work better than maximizing one or the other.
If your unmodified attack would deal 1000 damage, an unmodified crit would deal 1500 damage.
If you modify the attack by 100%, it becomes 2000 damage, and the crit would deal 3000 damage.
If you modify the crit multiplier by one bonus of 100%, normal attack is 1000 and the crit would deal 3000 damage.
If you modify the attack by 50%, it becomes 1500 damage, and you also modify the crit multiplier by 50%, the crit of that attack would deal 3375 damage.
Now you also have to take into account that crit multiplier bonuses are multiplicative, which means you should focus crit multiplier more than base damage, but still keep a mixture - if there is a low base, the crit multiplier has nothing to multiply!

'

The multiplier value is modified by talents multiplicatively, for instance if you have +40% and +20% modifiers, the resulting crit multiplier will be 150*(1+0.4+0.2)=240%, meaning that critical strikes deal 240% damage of normal hits.

Critical Strike info!
I tried to simplify this post as much as possible for the sake of easier presentation.

Good post. What would you say however on critical strike chance? What is a percent chance value to shoot for? Since the multiplier is nothing without a critical hit first.

Last edited by D4veY on Mar 11, 2013, 8:49:37 PM

Posted by
D4veY
on Mar 11, 2013, 8:49:09 PM

Well, you have to decide between being a glass cannon or still having a solid amount of bulk, and you also want to fix the problem of damage reflect (Vaal Pact becomes mandatory at really high DPS values). Either way, getting up to 40%ish crit chance is going to be quite a challenge (unless we are talking Ice Spear or Power Siphon because of the specific mechanics).

Life is tough.. but it is tougher if you're stupid.

Posted by
VenatorPoE
on Mar 11, 2013, 8:54:55 PM

'

Well, you have to decide between being a glass cannon or still having a solid amount of bulk, and you also want to fix the problem of damage reflect (Vaal Pact becomes mandatory at really high DPS values). Either way, getting up to 40%ish crit chance is going to be quite a challenge (unless we are talking Ice Spear or Power Siphon because of the specific mechanics).

Indeed, raising critical strike chance is quite a challenge compared to D3.

Posted by
D4veY
on Mar 11, 2013, 8:59:26 PM

'

'

Well, you have to decide between being a glass cannon or still having a solid amount of bulk, and you also want to fix the problem of damage reflect (Vaal Pact becomes mandatory at really high DPS values). Either way, getting up to 40%ish crit chance is going to be quite a challenge (unless we are talking Ice Spear or Power Siphon because of the specific mechanics).

Indeed, raising critical strike chance is quite a challenge compared to D3.

High crit chance and physical? Granite Flasks
High crit chance and elemental? Capped resists
It's like this is rocket science or something. You can get fairly decent crit while having good defenses. Where did this 'go full retard or full tank' idea come into play?

If you're reading this, I'm probably on another year-long ban.
Thanks GGG.

Posted by
on Mar 11, 2013, 9:10:12 PM

'

If you modify the crit multiplier by one bonus of 100%, normal attack is 1000 and the crit would deal 3000 damage.

I think this was wrong..
Here is how I understand it. Please someone verify which way is correct
1000 damage hit means 1500 crit (standard character has 150% crit.
if you add 100% crit modifier you would have a total of 250%
1000 hit becomes 2500 [1000*250%], not the 3000 that was mentioned earlier.
Which is right?

Posted by
on Mar 11, 2013, 9:55:11 PM

Also take into account your weapons. Most weapons start at a base 5% chance to crit.
Daggers, on the other hand, can add a lot - just dual wielding criss's with no other bonuses pushes it to 9%.

Kilts for Templars <tm> - Our mission is to replace the ancient Greek toga worn by the Templar with a kilt. It fits the theme of Wraeclast better, and it fits the voice of the Templar.

Posted by
WippitGuud
on Mar 11, 2013, 10:00:39 PM

In my opinion pure dmg is much better (dmg or weapon elemental dmg) than crit if you think about pure damage.
Some calc example with hipotetical dmg values. Long term dmg.
we use bow 5% crit chance
our base dmg
100 dmg per attack as base
100 attacks. Base crit 5%. 95 normal attacks, 5 critical attacks with 150% dmg
total damage: 9500 + 750 = 10250 dmg
we increase our crit to 10% as bow shadow for example. You can spend 5 points for +100% crit chance and +20% crit mulitplayer.
Bow 5% CRIT CHANCE. +100% = 10% crit chance with 170% dmg.
100 attacks = 90 normal + 10 crit
total damage = 9000 + (10 * 170) = 10700 dmg
so, 5 passive points gave us 500 dmg.
If we spent that 5 passive points into any dmg nods, like +4% dmg per node, we got more overall damage. 5 * 4% = 20% and 20% * 10 k = 2000. much more dmg
If you want go straight dmg you should take only dmg or elemental dmg nodes.

Posted by
Masharab
on Mar 11, 2013, 10:23:48 PM

crit builds are viable but the amount of nodes required is quite high.
things to consider:
1) 800% crit multiplier wont worth a dime if they dont come when one needs them, that is why i find chance to crit a more important thing to invest into.
2)due low base chance to crit on spells and equipment, one need to spend quite a lot of nodes into crit enhacers turning the char into a glass cannon wich is not a realy good idea in the current state of the game (blinkers, fast movers, desink magic and the tipical surprise you are dead moments when changing maps, entering a portal or what not.)
3)early on crit builds are quite weak since they have very low chance to crit.

self found league fan
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

Posted by
caboom
on Mar 11, 2013, 10:26:00 PM